Comments on: Carmichael: Armstrong months ahead of old schedule

By: BG

BG — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 01:54:28 +0000

I don't know why there are so many cycling enthusiasts out there that can't GET IT!!! I myself have basically cheated death to come back to a sport I loved to train and excell !!! Lance goes on to win the TOUR & unprecidented 7 times and they still don't get it. INTESTINAL FORTITUDE,and TENACITY, is what Lance has used as well as everything else that has motivated him during his incredulous career!!! The non believers can just go jump in a lake or better yet HELL!!!!!!!! He stands a good chance to win this years Tour!! That's right I said it !!! What do you pick some lame#%$@ follower that can't hack it on his own.Lance has meant everything to this sport to me and millions others that do have a clue! So stop being a HATER, and be a Believer!!! Sincerely BG

By: Guest

Guest — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 03:03:00 +0000

Hey you two, I have a link for you to check out in regards to comparing the results of current and past generations. A very well thought out system and gives proper due to all the great races. If the link is old news to either of you I apoligize, no offence was meant (LOL). http://www.thevirtualmusette.com

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 22:57:00 +0000

Thanks for the link! That is a very interesting site and must having taken a considerable amount of research to produce. Very cool.

By: Guest

Guest — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 20:13:00 +0000

Hey you two, I have a link for you to check out in regards to comparing the results of modern and past generations. A very well thought out system and gives proper due to all the great races. If the link is old news to either of you I apoligize, no offence was meant (LOL). http://www.thevirtualmusette.com

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 04:47:00 +0000

“However, many competitors to the great cyclists (Anquetil, Bartali, Coppi, Maes, Bobet, etc…) of the early and mid-twentieth century held regular jobs in addition to cycling,” My, God, Level, you are so out to lunch here it is not be believed. You are so far off base that you should feel ashamed. You contradict yourself in a single paragraph. All of the folks you name had great team support, except in the Tour perhaps when they were on national teams and no one wanted their main rivals to win. So, IF you know of what you write, show it the next time.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:33:00 +0000

“Earlier and much harder eras” is very subjective. Harder due to unreliable, heavy equipment, poor road conditions, etc… I agree. However, many competitors to the great cyclists (Anquetil, Bartali, Coppi, Maes, Bobet, etc…) of the early and mid-twentieth century held regular jobs in addition to cycling, and were at a terrible disadvantage due to the fact they couldn’t afford proper equipment or rely on consistent team support.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:31:00 +0000

Unfortunately, I don’t ride enough to need a coach.

Does this mean we don’t get to keep arguing?

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 21:22:00 +0000

You and your dime-store psychology win, I will shamefully skulk back to the cave I came from. CC is the king of all and I will now loosen my chinstrap to hang down to my chest in a sign of obeisance. You are truely levelheaded. Enjoy the CTS DVD’s, CTS nutritional supplement subscription and delicious FRS Energy drinks.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:43:00 +0000

You are unimpressed with a list of clientele including six world champions and five national champions? I wonder what it would take to impress you. Is there some event in most disciplines, cycling or otherwise, that is generally regarded as more prestigious than the world championship? I suppose possibly the Olympics, which is essentially a world championship in itself.

I care about spelling because I think it is very telling of one’s intellectual soundness. An error or two can be expected, but it gets old with repetition. Opinion forum? I believe it is an area set aside for comments. The individual users then choose to make comments based on fact or opinion. You made your choice with your initial ignorant, opinion-based comment about Carmichael’s list of clientele.

Merckx is your favorite. Great!

One of Armstrong’s other regrets was not riding the Giro. He has now accomplished that. So what? Lance not riding in certain races is not likely to tarnish his legacy of success…in most reasonable person’s minds.

“Do you think it is possible for me to be negative about CC without jealousy?” Possible, yes. Likely, no. Otherwise, why would you have made yourself look like a fool while inferring (“I wonder if there is a single other rider that Carmichael assists that has ever won a UCI race”) Carmichael doesn’t coach any winning riders besides Lance? See comment above regarding multiple world and national champions.

I am beginning to believe that you are also ignorant of your own motives and thoughts (i.e. claiming personal attacks, convincing yourself that a list of world champion clients is unimpressive).

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:58:00 +0000

Response to you in order

Review what I wrote “I wonder…” and it ended with “?”. So that is a question, not a statement; I answered it myself before seeing your comment. I am umimpressed by the list; my opinion.

I mis-typed his name because I do not care how it is spelled; you knew who it was so it did not affect your ability to understand me? Why would you care? As for the rest, see comment above. This is an opinion forum, isn’t it?

My Merckx comments stand alone; facts are facts. Results are results. The best is the best. You pick your favorite and I will pick mine.

In “Road to Roubaix” the then retired Armstrong states one of his greatest regrets is never riding P-R. What is stopping him now? Every thing you write will be an excuse that LA does not need. I will extend LA the courtesy of not prying into his choice of races, do not bore me with “scientific selection process” arguments. I still feel LA was a great rider; albeit one with a poorly rounded palmares. LA was much more fun to watch than MI.

Do you think I am jealous of a professional atheletes success? Do you think it is possible for me to be negative about CC without jealousy? State your facts to support that opinion if that is what you think. You are ignorant of my motives and thoughts; I will elucidate you; I am not jealous of either LA or CC, just bored. I am not overly-sensitive to your comments I either.

By: Levelheadsteve

Levelheadsteve — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 19:04:36 +0000

I’ll address your comments in the order mentioned by you.

How is calling you ignorant a personal attack? It is simply the truth. You didn’t know what you were talking about and made statements before you did the research. That is called ignorance. It is not a personal attack. If someone asserted that I am ignorant in the field of nuclear physics, I would not take it as a personal attack as it would simply be the truth.

You saw that “Charmichal” (it’s Carmichael by the way, sorry but I couldn’t ignore the misspelling for the third time) has a “couple other UCI team clients?” A couple other? OK…

Regarding Merckx…If “ifs” and “ands” were pots and pans, you’d have a hell of a kitchen. Should I start with the “ifs” and “ands” as well? I could, but then I would be making judgments on opinion rather than fact. Regardless, Merckx is the most successful all-around professional cyclist.

Training methods and knowledge are light years ahead of what they were in 1987 or 1993. Also, I don’t remember Indurain ever winning a non-time trial stage in the Tour, though I still feel he was a great rider. Weren’t the Planckaerts all Belgian? Of course they would feel that way about the Classics. Does that mean his opinion on the importance of racing Paris-Roubaix has to carry over to LA?

So what if LA’s best cycling days are over? He is in his upper 30’s and still made it on the Tour podium after taking several years off from cycling. And you are right, I would rather engage in an exchange of fact-based opinions than jealousy-based opinions. I am sorry if you are so incredibly sensitive that you take an internet forum “conversation” as a personal attack.

By: aisi4130

aisi4130 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 18:28:07 +0000

I never impugned your ability to have an opinion; I disagreed with you. You called me ignorant; did I call you that? Did you see I that I posted that I did see that he had a couple other UCI team clients? I looked that up immediately after my first comment and posted in within an hour; I am not ignorant of his clients, I am unimpressed with their UCI 1.X race win record. That is opinion, not igorance.

Maybe Merckx would have won 7 IF he hadn't: been assaulted by a french spectator on a climb AND also chose to ride the Vuelta one year when it was concurrent with the Tour so he could try to win that. Who care if he did, it is fact he is the most successful cyclist ever.

In 1987 Stephen Roche won the Tour, The Giro and the WC; that is not that long ago. In 1993 Indurain won the Tour-Giro double. This is not pre-WWII stuff here, they are post-Conconi training method era results so do not pull that "current era" argument on me. The level of competition argument is hollow and seems to me to be an apologia for Armstrong skirting the tough one-day races. Wasn't it one of the Plaenkerts that said "If I had never won Paris-Roubaix I would have been eternally shamed"?

I enjoyed watching LA win with well-timed attacks and true panache, but I think those days are over and I bet you do too. You think my utter boredom with Armstrong and his lackies comes from jealousy; that tells me you do not want to engage in an exchange of opinions but imply some short-coming on my part. Again with the personal attacks. I bet you and I have the same chance of being listed amoung the greats of cycling one day. Who's your coach; maybe he/she can fit me in their busy schedule. If you're paying Charmical you should tell him he really should get a helmet fitting before he tries to look reputuble for his Bicycling ad photo, or maybe he sells that exclusive advice in his deluxe Fred package.

By: Levelheadsteve

Levelheadsteve — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 17:14:00 +0000

I see you have not bothered to address my reply to your ignorant comments regarding Chris Carmichael’s clientele. I understand it is difficult to dispute facts with more of your assumptions.

To address your current attempt at making a point:

1. I never said Lance is the greatest cyclist ever and I’m not certain as to why you are making that inference.
2. Simply being the greatest Tour rider of all time probably qualifies you as “one of” the greatest cyclists in history. Not even the great Merckx could win seven tours, much less in a row.
3. Winning Milan San Remo seven times is an unimaginable feat, though not quite as unimaginable as winning seven Tours…in a row.
4. Lance’s wins have come in an era where the level of competition is higher than it has ever been (science, testing, nutrition, coaching, etc…). This is also an era where cyclists tend to pick and choose their races since scientifically, it is nearly impossible to remain at peak fitness for the entire season and remain competitive with such a high level of competition.

We all have our opinions, some based on fact, and others based on jealousy. Maybe someday you will be listed among the greatest cyclists in history. Now if only I could recommend a reputable coach.

By: aisi4130

aisi4130 — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:24:45 +0000

BUT he never even tried the Tour-Giro double, never even rode Paris-Roubaix, never won a monument. That is why Andy limits him to being a tour rider. Compare what he did to Coppi, Hinault, Indurain and Merckx and he pales when you include all the races that make up cycling. It is not hating if it is true, and winning San Sabastian and not-winning Liege (2nd is losing, isn't it?) is not the same as winning Ronde, the Tour-Giro double and P-R et al. You Lance lover's should be content with his true greatness and not inflate him to levels he never reached by citing victories at semi-classics and 2nd places. Being the among the best, and just below the true over-all greats, is pretty dang good, don't insult the rest of us and imply he was the the very best. By your logic I should place his stage win at Paris Nice with Merckx's SEVEN victories at Milan-San Remo; say that out loud and tell me if you can stand behind that.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:40:00 +0000

Andy, you remind me of the knight in Monty Python who had all his limbs severed and was still taunting and itching for a fight. “C,mon then, it’s only a flesh wound!”

By: Levelheadsteve

Levelheadsteve — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 07:11:03 +0000

Lance has also won a national and world championship, classics including San Sebastian and Fleche Wallonne, the Dauphine Libere, Tour of Luxembourgh, GP des Nations, GP Eddy Merckx, GP du Midi Libre, Tour of Switzerland, a stage in Paris Nice, Route du Sud and Circuit de la Sarthe, 2nd in Liege-Bastogne-Liege (twice), Amstel Gold (twice) and Paris Nice, Bronze medal in the Olympics, 4th in the Vuelta. Not to mention that his TdF overalls were filled with stage wins in both the mountains and time trials, unlike some past winners who rarely won an individual stage if at all.So, “just” a great tour rider, huh? OK.

By: chris

chris — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 05:17:00 +0000

Lance would be fine if he cut out the tweats about how grand his life is; reminding me how my life sucks.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:40:00 +0000

I have raised and given $100,000s to cancer research but none through the LAF. What about you? This seems to me to be a rather infertile path to keep continuing down, but if you want to, keep it up. I have all the time in the world to respond.

By: andyfarrand

andyfarrand — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 03:30:07 +0000

pbc917: I am not whining about LA but making an observation about Carmichael. I am not sure what you mean by the dumbing down of America just because we disagree with what you think. I have never disagreed with the notion that LA is the best tour rider of his generation, but he came to the race with far fewer racing miles in his legs that others in the peloton and never really raced more than 6 weeks a year and almost never after the tour. That in my book, and the cycling era I venerate, an era of genuinely hard men, hardly makes him a great champion, “just” a great tour rider.

By: Anonymous

Anonymous — Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:04:00 +0000

I love sports especially sports like bicycling, running, basketball….. that take pure heart and guts to win. Yes Lance was gifted with great genetics that has given him a edge over average folks like me but his attitude even with cancer and his will to win is second to none. Lance is a hero to me because he has lifted the sport of cycling in America.