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Technical Q&A with Lennard Zinn: Why did Schleck’s chain come off?

Dear Lennard,

Why did Andy Schleck’s chain come off today? It looked like he was just pedaling and not shifting.

Jed

Dear Jed,

I’ll venture my theory as to why it came off, but that’s all it is: a theory. But, I think I can definitively explain what’s unique about his derailleur that caused his rear wheel to jump up and made it impossible for him to pedal the chain back on and forced him to stop.

First, it may seem amazing that his mechanics had installed an inner stop, which, if adjusted properly, one would have thought would have prevented the chain from dropping in the first place. But I think the chain came off from the bottom and not the top, and the inner stop could not prevent that.

As you can see on the video of Schleck’s mechanic working on his bike after the stage on VeloCenter, the bike had an inner stop, and it looks like a K-Edge Chain Catcher. Assuming the Chain Catcher was adjusted properly so that it just barely did not touch the chain when in the small-chainring/large-cog combination, the only way the chain could have come off over the top of the chainring is if something flexed, like from a crack somewhere, perhaps in the frame or a crank spider, significant enough that the top of the ring could flex outward far enough to allow the chain to drop between it and the inner stop. Otherwise, the Chain Catcher would have pushed the chain back on. However, I don’t think that happened, because once a chain gets past one of those inner stops, it is very hard to get the chain past it and back on the chainring. It would have taken a heck of a lot more struggling from the Mavic mechanic to get it back on than you saw on TV; in fact, he probably would have had to loosen the front derailleur mounting bolt to get the chain past the arm of the Chain Catcher.

While it may have looked like Schleck was not shifting at the time on TV, the video appears to show him pushing his shift paddle inward with his right forefinger. And a chain can be dropped due to a changing chainline as well as from a sudden reduction in chain tension on the bottom at the same time the right leg comes over the top and flexes the frame, crank and chainrings.

Here is what I think is the most likely scenario: the chain came off the bottom of the inner chainring due to hard pedaling combined with shifting the rear derailleur, presumably to a higher gear (with SRAM, the same shift paddle does the shifts in both directions, so there’s no way to say that he was downshifting or upshifting from the photo of his finger) and not easing off on the pedals to accomplish the shift, and perhaps even a small bump in the road to add a little bounce to the chain helping it to come off the bottom of the chainring. Since Schleck’s speed was increasing, the shift most likely would have been to a smaller cog, which would have dropped the chain tension and forced the rear derailleur to pull up some slack at the same time he was throwing his weight into his attack.

The video also seems to show that the rear derailleur twisted way around (clockwise), and then his rear wheel jumped up. I think these are cause and effect. I think that his chain came off of the bottom and not the top, meaning that he still would have had a taut chain over the top. However, I think that the rear derailleur locked up his rear cogset and prevented it from turning forward, thus causing the rear wheel to jump up when the chain tension pulled the cog forward and up.

I propose that the reason this happened is unique to SRAM rear derailleurs. When you drop a chain with any rear derailleur, the derailleur, and particularly the lower jockey wheel, pulls back. This is due to the sudden release of the chain tension that would have otherwise been pulling the lower jockey wheel forward. When the chain drops in front with a SRAM derailleur in the rear, however, something unique happens. Note the long loop extending backward off of the cage around the lower jockey wheel. When the derailleur’s lower jockey wheel swings clockwise around to pull up the chain slack, that loop catches on the next largest cog (unless the chain is on the largest cog, which Schleck’s was not). The cog then pulls the derailleur around in a clockwise direction so it comes way up high in back. Once the limit of rotation of the rear derailleur is reached, the loop cannot rotate any further with the cog, and it locks up the cogset and prevents it from turning any further forward. This is what I think Schleck’s did.

By comparison, on a Dura-Ace rear derailleur, there is no loop, simply parallel cage plates alongside the lower jockey wheel. Notice that on a Campy rear derailleur there is also no such loop, only a small tab, and note how it only extends off of one cage plate and not very far from it.

(However, if Schleck was using this upgraded version, that loop might not have been there, and my theory may have a huge hole in it. But the video is inconclusive whether he has this cage [I actually think the beginning of the video with the mechanics shows the loop], and you’ll find plenty of photos online from the Tour showing unadulterated Red rear derailleurs on various of Cancellara’s and Schleck’s bikes, save for special painting – yellow for the yellow jersey, or gold for Cancellara’s world and Olympic medals.)

I’m also pretty sure that the chain dropped completely off to the inside, and it did NOT fall between the chainrings as some have theorized, since the rear derailleur sprang back so far, indicating there was lots of chain slack to take up.

Other possible (unlikely) causes:

Chains can drop off of the chainring due to a change in chainline due to frame flex. In other words, the cogset moves inward or outward relative to the plane of the frame and chainrings as the chainstays flex with pedaling load. Unless Schleck’s frame was cracked, this seems unlikely, as one of the features of the Specialized Tarmac SL3 is a one-piece monocoque bottom bracket/chainstay assembly intended to grant it high rear-end stiffness. According to Specialized, this design, an upgrade from the SL2, was praised by Tom Boonen as giving him all the stiffness he was seeking.

With Schleck’s lean body and the UCI weight limit making it unlikely that Specialized would have made him an extra-light version of the already-featherweight SL3 (around 900 grams), it seems unlikely that flex caused it unless the frame had been damaged. Remember Lance Armstrong’s second bobble with Iban Mayo on stage 15 to Luz Ardiden in 2003 after he and Mayo went down when a fan’s musette bag strap hooked the yellow jersey’s handlebar? Mayo’s wheel running into Armstrong’s right chainstay had cracked it, and when the Texan stood up on his pedals to chase back to the leaders, the broken chainstay caused the rear end to move laterally so much that his chain skipped and he dropped down onto his top tube and clipped out, causing Mayo to nearly run into him a second time.

A misadjusted front derailleur could cause the chain to drop, especially when paired with frame and/or crank flex. If the front derailleur had been too far inboard and touched the chain, it could have pushed it off to the inside. It seems unlikely that it could have been adjusted this way, because, it has to be way off to get it to happen (think of how many times you’ve had a rubbing front derailleur that did not derail the chain).

But, if there had been enough flex in the combination of frame, chainring, and crankset that, when stomping down with the right foot, the chain moved over far enough to the right that it touched hard against the inside of the right cage plate of the front derailleur, that could have pushed it off to the inside.

The chainring moving laterally can also cause chain drop, but that also seems unlikely. Schleck’s BB30 cranks cannot move laterally as its shims are installed properly, which it’s hard to imagine that they weren’t.

A loose chainring could move back and forth enough for the chain to drop. Also unlikely, given the constant attention to details like that by pro mechanics.

Flexing chainring spider arms could cause the chain to drop, but those are pretty stiff cranks, and riders do what Schleck did all of the time on them without the chain coming off.

A bent tooth on a chainring can push the chain off. Also unlikely, given the attention his bike gets.

And all of these scenarios, except perhaps the bent chainring tooth, would be knocking the chain off of the top of the chainring, not the bottom. I’m ruling that out because of the unlikelihood of getting the chain off past the Chain Catcher, and, more importantly, because of the extreme difficulty of getting it back out from behind the Chain Catcher and onto the chainring again.

So, we’re left with my original theory. LZ’s Schleck chain-drop theory in a nutshell: ‘twas a perfect storm of upshifting under load with a derailleur that has a big loop on it to snag the cogset when the chain drops off the bottom to the inside of the small chainring.

Lennard

Follow Lennard on Twitter at www.twitter.com/lennardzinn


Technical writer Lennard Zinn is a frame builder (www.zinncycles.com), a former U.S. national team rider and author of numerous books on bikes and bike maintenance including the pair of successful maintenance guides “Zinn and the Art of Mountain Bike Maintenance” – now available also on DVD, and “Zinn and the Art of Road Bike Maintenance,” as well as “Zinn and the Art of Triathlon Bikes” and “Zinn’s Cycling Primer: Maintenance Tips and Skill Building for Cyclists.”

Zinn’s regular column is devoted to addressing readers’ technical questions about bikes, their care and feeding and how we as riders can use them as comfortably and efficiently as possible. Readers can send brief technical questions directly to Zinn. Zinn’s column appears here each Tuesday.

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  • So, has anyone here cut off the "extended loop" from their Sram Red/Force/Rival rear der with a dremel? Why not?
  • WesTaylorable
    It was a SRAM, next question.
  • oldclimber
    Glad to see someone offering a critique of the "Shift that Lost the Tour". It is irritating when apparent mechanical shortcomings are sanitized out of reports, and we're left with nothing but cliched superlatives on every product.
    Still, it's very interesting how ubiquitous SRAM is in such a short time. I'm curious as to how noone else, especially Alberto, has had anything comparable to cope with, given a near-identical bike, etc. Maybe too long a chain? I live how the gumbies here are posting how superior they are to Andy Schleck, because you guys know how to shift? He and all the other Tour riders have probably shifted 1000 times more last year than you guys in your life. Read the new PR bs re:SRAM 2 x 10 "even extreme crossgearing is useable" and you realize the manufacturers are claiming all their stuff works perfectly forever.
    Why sprinters who max out every aspect of stress on frames and drivetrains seem to have had no such issues, then, as if in ironic epilogue, Schleck appeared maybe to be demoing to Contador how the problem occurred, on their "faux breakaway" on the final day, in ultra-slo-mo, when something apparently DID go awry again? Wassup with THAT? Sabateurs?
    Whatever the final analysis, I predict 12 certainties for his new team next year:
    1. That team mechanic will be gonzo.
    2. They won't be riding SRAM
    Any bets?
  • inwarresolution
    You know, I thought the same thing, but then I realized that Vino was only racing to mark Andy, and if Andy slowed, Vino was going to slow. Vino's move was defensive, and he had no intentions of passing Andy under any circumstances. I don't think Alberto's move was the act of a classy champion.
  • Boofungus
    I think some of you need to go back and look at the video. As the chain comes off, Vino is looking BACK at Contador, and he is directly between Cont and Schlek. No way either of them saw the chain come off. Also, Schlek is still PEDALING as both pass. Not a racer on this planet who wouldn't have gone, and gone hard. Now, after he hears on radio about the misfortune we can all debate about whether he should have sat up, but most of you have poorly analyzed the chain drop.
  • Boofungus
    I think some of you need to go back and look at the video. As the chain comes off, Vino is looking BACK at Contador, and he is directly between Cont and Schlek. No way either of them saw the chain come off. Also, Schlek is still PEDALING as both pass. Not a racer on this planet who wouldn't have gone, and gone hard. Now, after he hears on radio about the misfortune we can all debate about whether he should have sat up, but most of you have poorly analyzed the chain drop.
  • ExMachina1
    OMG!!! SRAMs are throwing chains off left and right!! It's a SRAM chain-trowing extravaganza!!! Mothers, protect your children cuz there's a SRAM chain flying your way.

    Oh, to be back in the good ol' days when chains never dropped. Curse you SRAM.
  • ExMachina1
    ...
  • I really don't know why the Pros are riding that SRAM crap. And Crap it it is and always as been. The Chilli's of bike components. Perfect crap for the un-educated consumer.
  • Sorry to say but SRAM SUCKS!! they lost the tour for Andy .
  • Yes! I've been saying all along that Andy's mishap was due to SRAM's fault. I had my chain pop off like that during a climb on my SRAM Force. I thought it happened because it was Force, but to see that happen to Red means that SRAM needs to go back to the drawing board. Andy should be blaming SRAM for his Yellow Jersey loss. Fine, Alberto made a unclassy move but it is a race and something like that a bit of bromance will solve, but SRAM mech. problem that's really bad--like Toyota cars. I hope Andy seek out for Shimano or Campy sponsorship next time.
  • I've watched and re-watched it a bunch of times with TiVo in high def, and while I can't tell what caused the drop or whether Andy was shifting at the time, it's very clear in the shots after he gets off his bike that he is using a modified derailleur with Berner-style large pulleys. No doubt about it.

    BTW, what is the mechanic using to hold the chain in place when he's cleaning Andy's bike?
  • jackorion
    This is the second major chain mishap that has happened to Saxo sense switching to Sram. The first was last year when Fabian snapped a chain in a major classic. Now Schleck, does anyone know of any other incidents? I'm Jack Orion and I choose Campagnolo.
  • FrankDay
    It is very difficult to explain how simply locking a rear wheel can cause it to jump several inches off the ground. Why doesn't it happen when one suddenly applies the rear brake with enough force to cause skidding (something I used to do everyday as a kid when I had a coaster brake)? Where are the forces coming from that would cause this? As I have thought about this I think several conditions have to be present to cause it.

    It is really a fairly simple physics problem. There must be a sufficient torque around the center of mass to cause the rotation. Expalining where the forces originate that can cause enough torque to cause this is the problem. Here is my analysis.

    The sudden locking of the wheel is a necessary but not a sufficient condition to cause wheel jump. Several other conditions have to be present together to see such a sudden large jump in the rear wheel. These conditions are:

    1. the rider must be out of the saddle.
    2. the rider must be attached to the pedals.
    3. the rider must be riding at very high power or cadence or both
    4. the rider should be pedaling in a circular fashion (that is, unweighting with some vigor on the back stroke (this is not a necessary condition but only contributes to the intensity of the lift)

    To explain further,

    1. The rider must be out of the saddle because this separates the riders mass from that of the bicycle. To lift the rear wheel does not require lifting the rider also. This substantially reduces the forces required to rotate the bicycle.

    2. The rider must be attached to the pedals because that is a necessary condition to apply a torque that would tend to lift the rear wheel off the ground at the pedals.

    3. Once the rider is separated from the bicycle by being out of the saddle and attached to the pedals the forces put on the pedals by the rider are also torques tending to rotate the bicycle. Pushing on the down stroke tends to push the front wheel into the ground and pulling up on the backstroke tends to raise the back wheel off of the ground. when riding normally, these forces are small because the pedals are moving away from the feet. But, when the wheel suddenly locks all of the muscular force (and momentum of the limbs) is suddenly transmitted to the pedals causing a large impulse force tending to rotate the bicycle. The downward rotation of the front wheel is resisted by the earth. But, only gravity prevents movement up by the back wheel. Coming out of the saddle also does one other thing. It moves the mass of the rider forward compared to the center of mass of the bicycle, putting more weight on the front wheel and making it easier to lift the rear wheel off the ground. If the rider is attached to the pedals the upward momentum and forces can lift the wheel off the ground if they are large enough.

    4. Pedaling in circles simply adds to the forces on the backstroke (described above) tending to lift the back wheel off the ground such that the more one is doing the more likely the wheel will come off the ground and the higher the wheel would come off the ground.

    The reason my back wheel did not jump off the pavement several inches when I locked up my rear wheel as a kid with my coaster brake (even if I were out of the saddle) is because I wasn't pedaling at the time and even if I were I was not attached to the pedals and could not apply any lifting force when the upwards moving pedal suddenly stopped.

    Of course, I am open to other explanations as to what could cause this rear wheel jump I saw.
  • pyops
    My friend Robert put SRAM on his new Trek, and not once but TWICE his rear derailleur locked up. One time it broke the chain a hundred yards before the finish of a lead out Rapha Ride on the Tour of CA Santa Cruz Stage. It twisted in and ruined his wheel as well, then snapped off.

    The second time was on a descent, and his wheel locked, just like the 'bounce' you see with Schleck.

    SRAM should revisit their design.
  • VeloJon
    Schleck was using the Berner oversized jockey wheels in his RD which does not have the suspect loop described byu Lennard above. But even without the loop, the cage looks like it protrudes out the back more than normal. Could this have been part of the problem - these things are new and not really race-tested at this point. http://road.cc/content/news/19678-have-you-seen-andy-schlecks-specialized-tarmac-sl3
  • Jim
    Hi Lennard
    2 days ago I threw a chain.
    One big ring bolt came apart, with the inner part trapped & floating between the 2rings. The chain kept lifting & unshipping at about 2pm position.
    I know you discount this, but one loose bolt??
    Rgds
    Jim
  • BumPhil
    I think it's very obvious what happened here and it's time for Specialized to come clean. Enough with the cheating already. The electric motor in his downtube shorted out or had some other malfunction, causing a sudden loss of power and immediate slack in the chain that the rear derailleur was unable to compensate for. Notice how Andy appears to reach for a button or something on his right brake lever. He's apparently engaging the electric motor at that point. How else to explain the sudden acceleration (on a steep climb no less) away from everybody else?
  • rentedshoes
    I maintain that Leonard has no idea what he was talking about, as is often the case. It also seems that many of you have mechanics that do not know how to properly set limit screws and "B" tension screws. It is unwise to condemn an entire road group because of a few bad mechanics.
  • I hope that SRAM paid you for these comments.
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